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> <channel><title>Comments on: Box Jellyfish (Chironex fleckeri)</title> <atom:link href="http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/</link> <description>Emergency Medicine education blog</description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 07:52:35 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator> <item><title>By: Food for medical emergency</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-15928</link> <dc:creator>Food for medical emergency</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 09:14:10 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-15928</guid> <description>[...] any sort of painful sensation in the water that could conceivably be a sting from a multi-tentacled box jellyfish (Chironex fleckeri) or a jellyfish that can causes Irukandji Syndrome (Carukia barnesi) vinegar [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] any sort of painful sensation in the water that could conceivably be a sting from a multi-tentacled box jellyfish (Chironex fleckeri) or a jellyfish that can causes Irukandji Syndrome (Carukia barnesi) vinegar [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Sydney</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-13370</link> <dc:creator>Sydney</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 23:27:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-13370</guid> <description> Most jellyfish are drifters that feed on living or dead prey: small fish, eggs, zooplankton and other invertebrates that become caught in their tentacles. Prey items are brought (by tentacles, if they have any) into the cavity, called coelenteron, where they are digested. Some jellyfish are parasites.Jellyfish have cells called cnidocytes, which contain nematocysts, and located usually on their tentacles, mainly. Whenever a prey comes in contact with cnidocytes, hundreds to thousands of nematocysts&#039; filaments are ejected into the prey&#039;s direction. These stinging cells are thus able to latch onto the prey, and the tentacles, or the oral arms (developed from the manubrium) bring the prey item into their mouth for digestion. Nutrients then pass along the animal&#039;s radial canals to the various tissues of the body.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most jellyfish are drifters that feed on living or dead prey: small fish, eggs, zooplankton and other invertebrates that become caught in their tentacles. Prey items are brought (by tentacles, if they have any) into the cavity, called coelenteron, where they are digested. Some jellyfish are parasites.</p><p>Jellyfish have cells called cnidocytes, which contain nematocysts, and located usually on their tentacles, mainly. Whenever a prey comes in contact with cnidocytes, hundreds to thousands of nematocysts&#8217; filaments are ejected into the prey&#8217;s direction. These stinging cells are thus able to latch onto the prey, and the tentacles, or the oral arms (developed from the manubrium) bring the prey item into their mouth for digestion. Nutrients then pass along the animal&#8217;s radial canals to the various tissues of the body.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Leanne</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-12526</link> <dc:creator>Leanne</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 02:16:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-12526</guid> <description>While I detest the creatures, if they were relegated to extinction, so, too, would be loggerhead turtles, sunfish, certain octopi, and other creatures that depend on this beast as their main food source. Any creature made extinct affects the entire planet ecosystem, some way, some how. It is better for humans to learn how to avoid them, and to better treat the injuries caused when they are encountered.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I detest the creatures, if they were relegated to extinction, so, too, would be loggerhead turtles, sunfish, certain octopi, and other creatures that depend on this beast as their main food source. Any creature made extinct affects the entire planet ecosystem, some way, some how. It is better for humans to learn how to avoid them, and to better treat the injuries caused when they are encountered.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Chris Nickson</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-1182</link> <dc:creator>Chris Nickson</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:01:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-1182</guid> <description>Hi KiteDoc,Thanks for your detailed comment. I don&#039;t disagree with your comment in any substantial way. However, except for emphasizing that vinegar should be applied first - a point that does deserve emphasis - I am not sure in what way you disagree with the management plan described.I am also familiar with Bart&#039;s management protocol in Darwin - as I have also lived and worked there for a couple of years and have coauthoured a paper on jellyfish envenoming with him - and it doesn&#039;t differ substantially from the advice given on this site.You are right to point out the absence of evidence for the administration of antivenom and magnesium. However, if a patient is in dire straits I doubt the majority of toxicologists and emergency docs in Australia would hesitate to administer these therapies, although it is important not to get distracted from the essentials of good resuscitation. As for magnesium, no one really knows if or how it might work or what the indications should be...Cheers,
Chris</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi KiteDoc,</p><p>Thanks for your detailed comment. I don&#8217;t disagree with your comment in any substantial way. However, except for emphasizing that vinegar should be applied first -- a point that does deserve emphasis -- I am not sure in what way you disagree with the management plan described.</p><p>I am also familiar with Bart&#8217;s management protocol in Darwin -- as I have also lived and worked there for a couple of years and have coauthoured a paper on jellyfish envenoming with him -- and it doesn&#8217;t differ substantially from the advice given on this site.</p><p>You are right to point out the absence of evidence for the administration of antivenom and magnesium. However, if a patient is in dire straits I doubt the majority of toxicologists and emergency docs in Australia would hesitate to administer these therapies, although it is important not to get distracted from the essentials of good resuscitation. As for magnesium, no one really knows if or how it might work or what the indications should be&#8230;</p><p>Cheers,<br
/> Chris</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Chris Nickson</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-12355</link> <dc:creator>Chris Nickson</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:01:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-12355</guid> <description>Hi KiteDoc,Thanks for your detailed comment. I don&#039;t disagree with your comment in any substantial way. However, except for emphasizing that vinegar should be applied first - a point that does deserve emphasis - I am not sure in what way you disagree with the management plan described.I am also familiar with Bart&#039;s management protocol in Darwin - as I have also lived and worked there for a couple of years and have coauthoured a paper on jellyfish envenoming with him - and it doesn&#039;t differ substantially from the advice given on this site.You are right to point out the absence of evidence for the administration of antivenom and magnesium. However, if a patient is in dire straits I doubt the majority of toxicologists and emergency docs in Australia would hesitate to administer these therapies, although it is important not to get distracted from the essentials of good resuscitation. As for magnesium, no one really knows if or how it might work or what the indications should be...Cheers,
Chris</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi KiteDoc,</p><p>Thanks for your detailed comment. I don&#8217;t disagree with your comment in any substantial way. However, except for emphasizing that vinegar should be applied first -- a point that does deserve emphasis -- I am not sure in what way you disagree with the management plan described.</p><p>I am also familiar with Bart&#8217;s management protocol in Darwin -- as I have also lived and worked there for a couple of years and have coauthoured a paper on jellyfish envenoming with him -- and it doesn&#8217;t differ substantially from the advice given on this site.</p><p>You are right to point out the absence of evidence for the administration of antivenom and magnesium. However, if a patient is in dire straits I doubt the majority of toxicologists and emergency docs in Australia would hesitate to administer these therapies, although it is important not to get distracted from the essentials of good resuscitation. As for magnesium, no one really knows if or how it might work or what the indications should be&#8230;</p><p>Cheers,<br
/> Chris</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: KiteDoc</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-1179</link> <dc:creator>KiteDoc</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:13:06 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-1179</guid> <description>I disagree with your management plan described above. Having lived and worked in Darwin for 3 years, I have been involved in the management of many Chironex fleckeri envenomations. I have had to treat only 1 near-fatal envenomation in all that time spent in ED and remote. Most people, as you suggest, require simple first aid measures only.The management strategies that actually benefit the patient the most are:1. Copius vinegar poured over any visible tentacles still attached to the individual just envenomedThis is imperative, as the vinegar inactivates the nematocysts (the stinging cells) from releasing more venom. DO NOT first apply ice, as suggested in the management paln, as this will actually have the REVERSE effect - it will cause the nematocysts to fire, thus increasing the venom serum dose, and increasing the likelihood of cardio-toxicity.2. AntivenomThere is actually a lot of debate as to whether the anti-venom works. after discussion with leading Chironex researchers in Darwin, it appears that you either die pretty much instantly (last death in the NT was December 2007, a child from the neighbouring Tiwi Islands), or not at all. If your patient has collapsed, they require BLS +/- ALS. The anti-venom may be a useful adjunct for analgesia (see point 3 below). This is currently being further investigated.3. AnalgesiaThese stings hurt. A lot. Give adequate analgesia, ie opioids. You can try ice, or a hot (warm) bath - neither will really work. There is a study currently underway by Assoc. Prof Bart Currie (FRACP), who is the leading physician investigating box jellies and their envenoming. He is based in Darwin, both as an ID physician and as a researcher at Menzies, and also Dr Geoff Ibister, a leading toxinologist based in Newcastle, NSW.4. MgSO4.Magnesium has been used in envenoming as an analgesic adjunct, not as a cardiac stabiliser. Its use is controversial. In my experience, it doesn&#039;t actually work. This is currently also under investigation by Dr Currie et al.5. Steroids (for the rash).THe welts often scar. Steroid use (systemic or oral) is NOT indicated in the acute phase of the envenomation. For the majority of patients (such as my husband) who develop the pruritic delayed hypersensitivity reaction, a steroid cream is useful to manage the extreme itch, that keeps the patient (and their spouse) awake at night!Finally - Vinegar + BLS = life saved.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with your management plan described above. Having lived and worked in Darwin for 3 years, I have been involved in the management of many Chironex fleckeri envenomations. I have had to treat only 1 near-fatal envenomation in all that time spent in ED and remote. Most people, as you suggest, require simple first aid measures only.</p><p>The management strategies that actually benefit the patient the most are:</p><p>1. Copius vinegar poured over any visible tentacles still attached to the individual just envenomed</p><p>This is imperative, as the vinegar inactivates the nematocysts (the stinging cells) from releasing more venom. DO NOT first apply ice, as suggested in the management paln, as this will actually have the REVERSE effect -- it will cause the nematocysts to fire, thus increasing the venom serum dose, and increasing the likelihood of cardio-toxicity.</p><p>2. Antivenom</p><p>There is actually a lot of debate as to whether the anti-venom works. after discussion with leading Chironex researchers in Darwin, it appears that you either die pretty much instantly (last death in the NT was December 2007, a child from the neighbouring Tiwi Islands), or not at all. If your patient has collapsed, they require BLS +/- ALS. The anti-venom may be a useful adjunct for analgesia (see point 3 below). This is currently being further investigated.</p><p>3. Analgesia</p><p>These stings hurt. A lot. Give adequate analgesia, ie opioids. You can try ice, or a hot (warm) bath -- neither will really work. There is a study currently underway by Assoc. Prof Bart Currie (FRACP), who is the leading physician investigating box jellies and their envenoming. He is based in Darwin, both as an ID physician and as a researcher at Menzies, and also Dr Geoff Ibister, a leading toxinologist based in Newcastle, NSW.</p><p>4. MgSO4.</p><p>Magnesium has been used in envenoming as an analgesic adjunct, not as a cardiac stabiliser. Its use is controversial. In my experience, it doesn&#8217;t actually work. This is currently also under investigation by Dr Currie et al.</p><p>5. Steroids (for the rash).</p><p>THe welts often scar. Steroid use (systemic or oral) is NOT indicated in the acute phase of the envenomation. For the majority of patients (such as my husband) who develop the pruritic delayed hypersensitivity reaction, a steroid cream is useful to manage the extreme itch, that keeps the patient (and their spouse) awake at night!</p><p>Finally -- Vinegar + BLS = life saved.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Harry Shankman</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-408</link> <dc:creator>Harry Shankman</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:58:06 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-408</guid> <description>I am a herpetologist by training, and know a bit about various venoms from snakes; those which attack the heart, muscle, nerve systems, healthy tissue, all by a multitude of means, and to various degrees.
However, I was taken aback to learn that this &#039;fish&#039;s&#039; method of envenomation point toward the sodium and calcium channels; something we call the &quot;Sodium Pump&quot;, a real and necessary way to transport electrolytes along a membrane (healthy) , allowing for normal function.
To my knowledge (I am NOT sure, but I&#039;ve never known) any snake to attack via venom components by this route.
So, (from a scientists&#039; perspective), it is fascinating. And I say this with the utmost respect to those stricken by such a powerful animal.
Thank You.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a herpetologist by training, and know a bit about various venoms from snakes; those which attack the heart, muscle, nerve systems, healthy tissue, all by a multitude of means, and to various degrees.<br
/> However, I was taken aback to learn that this &#8216;fish&#8217;s&#8217; method of envenomation point toward the sodium and calcium channels; something we call the &#8220;Sodium Pump&#8221;, a real and necessary way to transport electrolytes along a membrane (healthy) , allowing for normal function.<br
/> To my knowledge (I am NOT sure, but I&#8217;ve never known) any snake to attack via venom components by this route.<br
/> So, (from a scientists&#8217; perspective), it is fascinating. And I say this with the utmost respect to those stricken by such a powerful animal.<br
/> Thank You.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Harry Shankman</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-12524</link> <dc:creator>Harry Shankman</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:58:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-12524</guid> <description>I am a herpetologist by training, and know a bit about various venoms from snakes; those which attack the heart, muscle, nerve systems, healthy tissue, all by a multitude of means, and to various degrees.
However, I was taken aback to learn that this &#039;fish&#039;s&#039; method of envenomation point toward the sodium and calcium channels; something we call the &quot;Sodium Pump&quot;, a real and necessary way to transport electrolytes along a membrane (healthy) , allowing for normal function.
To my knowledge (I am NOT sure, but I&#039;ve never known) any snake to attack via venom components by this route.
So, (from a scientists&#039; perspective), it is fascinating. And I say this with the utmost respect to those stricken by such a powerful animal.
Thank You.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a herpetologist by training, and know a bit about various venoms from snakes; those which attack the heart, muscle, nerve systems, healthy tissue, all by a multitude of means, and to various degrees.<br
/> However, I was taken aback to learn that this &#8216;fish&#8217;s&#8217; method of envenomation point toward the sodium and calcium channels; something we call the &#8220;Sodium Pump&#8221;, a real and necessary way to transport electrolytes along a membrane (healthy) , allowing for normal function.<br
/> To my knowledge (I am NOT sure, but I&#8217;ve never known) any snake to attack via venom components by this route.<br
/> So, (from a scientists&#8217; perspective), it is fascinating. And I say this with the utmost respect to those stricken by such a powerful animal.<br
/> Thank You.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Harry Shankman</title><link>http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2008/12/box-jellyfish-chironex-fleckeri/#comment-12021</link> <dc:creator>Harry Shankman</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:58:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://sandnsurf.medbrains.net/?p=1423#comment-12021</guid> <description>I am a herpetologist by training, and know a bit about various venoms from snakes; those which attack the heart, muscle, nerve systems, healthy tissue, all by a multitude of means, and to various degrees.
However, I was taken aback to learn that this &#039;fish&#039;s&#039; method of envenomation point toward the sodium and calcium channels; something we call the &quot;Sodium Pump&quot;, a real and necessary way to transport electrolytes along a membrane (healthy) , allowing for normal function.
To my knowledge (I am NOT sure, but I&#039;ve never known) any snake to attack via venom components by this route.
So, (from a scientists&#039; perspective), it is fascinating. And I say this with the utmost respect to those stricken by such a powerful animal.
Thank You.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a herpetologist by training, and know a bit about various venoms from snakes; those which attack the heart, muscle, nerve systems, healthy tissue, all by a multitude of means, and to various degrees.<br
/> However, I was taken aback to learn that this &#8216;fish&#8217;s&#8217; method of envenomation point toward the sodium and calcium channels; something we call the &#8220;Sodium Pump&#8221;, a real and necessary way to transport electrolytes along a membrane (healthy) , allowing for normal function.<br
/> To my knowledge (I am NOT sure, but I&#8217;ve never known) any snake to attack via venom components by this route.<br
/> So, (from a scientists&#8217; perspective), it is fascinating. And I say this with the utmost respect to those stricken by such a powerful animal.<br
/> Thank You.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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